Namaste Bhagavan, I am so grateful for your
presence on this earth and in my life, and for the gift of enlightenment that
you have given to me, and are giving to the world. For myself, I can say that
there really seems like there is no individual self left, that who I am
is simply the universe expressing through this body, experiencing itself moment
to moment in a very fresh way. It seems like there is an emptiness here, an
emptiness that is at the same time very full…
I am known in India as
Bhagavan. I am an Avatar, an Avatar who is specifically concerned about
enlightening people and of course, also fulfilling their desires. I have been
around for the past nearly 12 years or so. We have millions of followers, and a
few thousand now who are enlightened. We can say that there is some kind of
spiritual renaissance going on in the country here. We have been able to
address all sections of society, men and women, young and old, rich and poor.
There is now a tremendous seeking after enlightenment, a great passion now
among large numbers of people to become enlightened, and so I have come to be
considered as an Avatar for enlightenment.
Bhagavan, for those may not be familiar
with the term Avatar, how would you define it?
In India, we have this
concept of the Avatar. An Avatar could be a musical Avatar, a mathematical
Avatar, a political Avatar, or a spiritual Avatar. An Avatar is someone who
comes with a specific mission on the planet and who is divinely inspired, and
through whom divine energies flow.
Avatars can come in every field of human activity. Many seem to think it
is can only pertain to spiritual work, but it isn’t so. But I happen to be a
spiritual Avatar.
You and Amma, your wife, are both Avatars?
Yes we are both Avatars,
like two sides of the same coin. We
have excellent understanding and communication, and sometimes we don’t even
have to talk to know what’s going on.
We work like one being when it comes to enlightenment and helping
people.
Bhagavan, there have been so many Avatars
in human history, who have come and given different teachings, and helped to
maybe enlighten a few people. What
makes you so different?
Well, I think it is not
about my being different. I think I have come at a different time. The other Avatars prepared people for
enlightenment, for liberation, but could not give it to them, not because they
were not capable of giving it, but because the times were not ready for that. So I come at a time when earth’s energies
have changed, and man is very receptive, and it is possible to give him
enlightenment. So my advantage is that I have come at the right time, a time
when it is possible to give it to man.
Does this have something to do with our
movement into the Golden Age?
It definitely has to do with
the emergence of the Golden Age. In
India it is believed that the Kali Yuga started sometime around 3002 BC and is
supposed to have ended in 2002 AD. By 2003 we are right into the Golden Age. That’s why we began giving enlightenment publicly
in the year 2003.
How do you give enlightenment? How is it
possible to give enlightenment?
Ah yes. Basically it is
through the process of what is called ‘Deeksha / Oneness Blessing’, an
electrical energy which transfers through some kind of a hole in the mind of
man. We believe that the mind of man is
like a wall, which divides man from God.
The Deeksha / Oneness Blessing is an electrical energy which makes a
hole in this wall, which we call the mind.
Once that happens, then God and man can come to relate with each
other. The way they relate has to do
with his background, his conditioning, his aspirations, his education, so many
factors. But it is God who gives enlightenment,
whether you call it God or cosmic consciousness or nature, call it what you
want… So that takes over and enlightenment is delivered through God. He is the
one who delivers. Our job is to give the Deeksha / Oneness Blessing and make a
hole in the mind, and then God does the rest.
It’s a very complex process that only God can do.
Is this something you have been preparing
for a very long time?
Yes, my whole life has been
a preparation for this. Ever since I was a child, my only concern was how to
liberate man from his suffering. These
were not things that I arrived at through my own life experience, because I
myself was a child, but rather I was forced to become concerned about man’s
suffering and to work for that. That
is why I am an Avatar, because I never arrived at these conclusions, I was just
led into these things by a higher energy, a higher force, what you call the
divine energy, or God. Ever since I was a child I
was made to do certain practices, which I did for many years. So that has given me the ability. So mostly
I don’t give Deeksha / Oneness Blessing. I let others give Deeksha / Oneness
Blessing. I am more like a powerhouse,
and the others are like step down transformers who can receive this energy and
pass it on to people. So my function is to remain as a powerhouse for some
time. So this is how Deeksha / Oneness
Blessing is given and how enlightenment or God realization occurs.
So when you give Deeksha / Oneness Blessing
you speak of this Deeksha / Oneness Blessing as a neurobiological process that
affects the brain?
Yes, when we give Deeksha /
Oneness Blessing it is like the passing on of an electrical energy that affects
the brain, the spinal cord, and what we call the ductless glands or the
‘chakras’. So most of the work is being
done on the frontal lobes and the parietal lobes of the brain. There is an activation of the frontal lobes,
and a deactivation of the parietal lobes, plus some energies are sent into the
ductless glands to reactivate these chakras.
So all this in turn produces a hole in the mind, and a link is
established between God and man.
Thereafter what happens is God’s work. Up to then, of course, we can do
certain things.
Right.
So when you speak about losing the ‘self’, that’s what happens when you
make this hole in the wall.
When you make the hole in
the wall, then God can take over, and then he works on the senses, liberating
the senses from the mind, from the clutches of the mind. When that happens you lose your ‘self’. That
part of the work happens through God himself.
As he is the creator, He works like a computer to rearrange the brain,
and He takes over.
So each person’s enlightenment is
absolutely unique then.
It’s absolutely unique. It depends on his background, his
conditioning, what happened in his childhood, his own seeking, his religious
conditioning. So all these things are involved.
Bhagavan, many many people have been
seeking for many many lifetimes, and been through all kinds of practice,
sadhanas, rituals, ceremonies and traditions, and many times they feel they
have only been able to go so far, and none have been able to actually cross
over into enlightenment. So how is this different?
When I look at a person, I
don’t see him as a first-timer. I only
see millions of years behind him. I
believe that all of humanity has finished all the work they need to do. I think everybody has been well prepared
through so many lives. And therefore
now is the time to get it. All the hard
work has been done. I believe everybody
has done the hard work, and now the fruit is there to be had.
Yes, it must be such a relief for many
people to hear that.
Yes, that’s why I see
everyone as a seeker, everybody has done their sadhana, everybody is ready. I
cannot say so and so is not ready.
So as this work progresses, is it possible
that more and more people will become enlightened who have no idea about
enlightenment, who have never been seeking enlightenment, it will simply just
happen?
Yes, what is likely to
happen is that there are now people who are enlightened who are able to give
Deeksha / Oneness Blessing to people who are able to get into good states. But very soon, maybe a few months from now,
those who will receive Deeksha / Oneness Blessing from them will naturally
become enlightened. And not only that,
they will be able to give Deeksha / Oneness Blessing to others and make them
enlightened. This process will continue
for some time. There will come a time
when without Deeksha / Oneness Blessing the whole of mankind is going to make
it. Once the critical level is reached
there is going to be a spontaneous occurrence across the planet.
What will this look like in practical
terms?
In practical terms the world
will will look very different. We will not be able to talk about me being an
Indian or you being an American or somebody else being an African. we cannot
talk in terms of races and nationalities, or I can’t say I’m a Hindu, I’m a
Christian, I’m a Muslim. So all these things which
divide man will just disappear. All these things will just drop off. There will
be no need for these things. All these divisions will not exist. We will become
just human beings. We will become one
family. It’s not a concept, this will
just happen. This is when we will truly become humans. But as long as we are going to define
ourselves in terms of nationalities, religions, cultures, race, we will still
continue to be tribal and very primitive.
We are becoming human now. It
will definitely happen.
What about people who are still into power,
control, and ego games, and who may not want to get enlightened?
Yes, people who stubbornly
resist enlightenment will also naturally become enlightened. At that point there won’t be any resisting
it. Nobody can say “I will stay out of
enlightenment”. That is not possible.
It’s a natural occurrence. It’s human evolution. So all these power games and ego games will
just stop. You can just not do it anymore. The brain will function differently.
That’s amazing. So even the people who are consciously and adamantly refusing to
even think about sharing the earth with other people, who are trying to control
the resources of the earth and creating environmental devastation for their own
benefit, whether companies, governments, businesses, or individuals, this will
all change?
Yes, all this will
dramatically change. Man will soon
realize that the earth is a living organism, he depends on it like his Mother,
so no one will even think of harming the earth. This won’t take some kind of
education; it will be a natural happening. This is what will happen. So we are
going to see a very different earth, a very different world. I am not
speculating. I am just speaking very directly from the visions thousands of
people have had in the last decade from various continents.
Bhagavan there are many scientists who
predict, based on what is happening on the planet today – global warming,
possible ice age coming, the quality of air and water, and so on – that there could be a major environmental
catastrophe, and that we might even end up wiping out all life on the planet. How can you be so sure that there will be a
planetary enlightenment?
The predictions are quite
true, but what they are not aware of is that, as we have seen in our visions, a
great transformation is sweeping across the planet which will in turn prevent
these things from happening. Already we are seeing signs of people becoming
enlightened, and how it affects the environment. We are able to see this on a very small scale. And from that we are able to predict that
on a global scale this transformation is going to occur. This is what is going
to save the earth. If that does not
happen, then what the scientists are predicting could very well come true.
So an example could be that if a village
gets enlightened, and there has been a drought for the past few years, then the
monsoons…
The monsoons will come,
yes. It is happening in many places in
India. We are seeing it.
So similarly when there are predictions of
major earthquakes, volcanic activity, pole shifts even, then as people become
enlightened, this will alter our relationship with the earth…
We could save the
earth. That is why we are telling
people “the house is on fire, let us move faster, let us hurry up”.
Yes, this is a very important message for
people to hear. There are so many people in despair and hopelessness, so many
good people who have given up any kind of future for the earth because of what
they see with their outer eyes.
Yes, but there is no need
for them to lose hope. Because things
are going to change dramatically. In a
very unexpected way things are going to change.
Yes, I am so happy to hear that. As people become enlightened, and as the
planet becomes enlightened as a collective, how will that change the physical
quality of the earth?
There is a very close
correlation between human consciousness and the physical process occurring on
the planet. So the moment that conflict
levels are reduced in human consciousness, you will find dramatic changes at
the earth level also. So you will find
a reduction of insects and pests in the crops, and nature behaving in a much
better way without the need for chemicals.
All these things are a natural consequence of the reduction of conflict
in human consciousness. There is such a close correlation between the two. This also we are seeing on a small scale at
the village level.
So as humans become enlightened, then our
relationship with the environment will change, species that have become extinct
will come back, the oceans will become depolluted, and so on.
Yes, we have seen remarkable
things happening on a small scale, so we believe it can happen on a large scale
also. So that’s why we are so confident that these things will happen. Otherwise there seems to be no hope in
living at all.
Yes, otherwise there doesn’t seem to be any
point in going on. Bhagavan, one
question I have is about yours and Amma’s consciousness which pervades the
Deeksha / Oneness Blessing. How is it possible with so many people receiving
the Deeksha / Oneness Blessing now that you are able to track what’s happening
with everybody individually?
We actually function on two
levels. When I am having this
conversation with you, certain things are switched off so that I can hold this
meaningful conversation. But at other
times the switches are on and we can experience a lot of human beings at once
and what is going on in their minds and their consciousness, and we can
interfere and do many things. That
dimension is not known to man. I am not
claiming this as something special to me, because whatever I am experiencing I
believe in making others also experience, and there are also others now at that
level who can similarly experience a few hundred beings at the same time. This is a faculty that is very natural to
man and will start to open up in many people. To me it happens very naturally.
Because of what happened to me in my early life I can focus on a 100,000-strong
crowd and go into them and do many things.
So you are able to go into the collective
consciousness…
Yes, it happens very easily
and very naturally. And others too are now able to do it to some extent. Soon
it will start happening in a bigger way.
And that’s very much a part of
enlightenment.
That’s very much a part of
enlightenment, in fact many things will start happening after
enlightenment. We are not talking very
much about it because it is going to happen very naturally. Enlightenment is
not going to stop at just being aware of things, or just being joyful or being
in bliss. There is a lot more to
it. But these will follow in the months
coming.
One question which may sound a little
strange, how is your consciousness as an Avatar different from the
consciousness of someone who gets enlightened?
At this point in time the
only difference could be in the intensity of the awareness or the intensity of
the bliss, but otherwise there is no basic fundamental difference. But as these
nadis open up and become stronger, his awareness levels will also increase and
the gap will soon close. But it may
take a little time. But fundamentally there is no difference. Except I do have some additional facilities.
Like I can see what is going on in some other place, what’s happening in
somebody’s mind, how I can help them. I can really interfere in helping their
life by taking up a strong sankalpa, a strong wish. These too people will be able to acquire in the course of time.
Already a few of them have acquired this in small measure.
So as people deepen into their
enlightenment, these will be things that anyone is capable of?
Yes, as your concern for
people grows, these things naturally start happening. It’s all a matter of how
concerned you are abot others. As you go deeper and deeper into enlightenment
your concern also increases. Along with
this, these things also start happening.
Yes, seems as if an entirely new species is
arising.
Yes, it’s more like that, an
entirely new species is emerging.
Bhagavan, there are so many different
religions in the world today. What is
your attitude towards all the different faiths?
I believe that different
religions are required to handle the different needs of people. I have seen
people sometimes require a particular religion to handle a particular problem,
or their background needs the input of a particular religion. I personally have never had any difficulty
with people of any faith. Because the Deeksha / Oneness Blessing is a neutral
thing and the Deeksha / Oneness Blessing only activates a certain area of the
brain or deactivates it, and the person only discovers what his religion taught
him. So he discovers the truths of his
own faith. What I do or teach is not a
new faith or religion, it is not anything new at all, it merely helps you to
discover what you have been seeking all these years. So I personally have no
conflict with the people of any faith.
So once people are enlightened, the Muslim
will experience his unity with Allah, the Christian will experience himself a
Christ, a Buddhist will experience Buddha consciousness, and so on?
And so on. There is
absolutely no conflict at all. That’s
why I am saying that soon there will be no divisions of man, saying I belong to
this religion or that religion, you know, we are going to become one
family. This is going to be a reality.
Yes, it seems that the differences between
religions have only to do with ego, nothing to do with the essence of that
religion.
Yes.
Bhagavan, you speak of different stages,
different aspects of enlightenment. You
speak of the flowering of the heart, you speak of the witness consciousness,
you speak about oneness. Could you
describe this in more detail?
Yes, the first thing that
often happens in the process of enlightenment is the flowering of the
heart. You for the first time discover
real compassion, real love for human beings.
But as this becomes deeper you lose a sense of separateness. Even at this point we really do not call you
fully enlightened. We call you fully
enlightened only when you are experiencing reality as it is. To experience
reality as it is these are some kinds of pre-requisites. Very rarely it happens
suddenly in a big way. So these may be called stages of enlightenment. Enlightenment itself is experiencing reality
as it is.
Is that equivalent to oneness?
It is equivalent to
oneness. But of course, oneness itself
just takes off from there and finally becomes oneness with God, or oneness with
cosmic consciousness. It is the ultimate
oneness. But that could be difficult for some people, to say that man and God
could become one. That some people may not accept, but it is a reality that
people can become one with God.
You speak of designing your own God. What
do you mean by that?
When I speak of designing
your own God I do not mean that you create your own God. God is someone who
creates you, and you do not create God. But the way he is going to treat you
and the way he is going to conduct himself with you depends on how you expect
him to conduct himself with you. This
is taken from the Hindu concept of ‘bhakta paradeena’, that God is dependent on
the devotee. So if you want him to be a friend he behaves like a friend. If you
want him to behave like a mother, he behaves like a mother. So it is in your hands to design the way he
is going to behave with you. That’s how I say you design your own God.
So certain aspects, certain views of God
will make it easier to actually receive this gift.
Yes, it can be very easy to
receive this gift. If your concept of
God is a very friendly one then you don’t even have to pray. You just ask it and he gives it to you. Thousands of people have this kind of
relationship. I am only talking about
when people have actually achieved it, not before that. So people have made God
their friend, a very friendly God. This includes, Christians, Muslims, Hindus,
people of all faiths.
And God is masculine as well as feminine?
God is masculine as well as
feminine, or light or formless. Many
have only a formless God. Many have it as just light. Some even have him as
both male and female. Each person has
complete freedom. It’s the individual’s choice.
You also speak of designing your own
enlightenment.
Your own enlightenment, yes,
like for example, you can design how much of heart you want, or how much of
oneness you want, or how much of experiencing your reality you want. Again it depends on your passion, the kind
of books you have read, the kind of seeking you have had.
So it’s really the beginning of a lifelong
journey or exploration…
Exploration, yes. And you
can change it also, in the course of time, you can change it. In practice we find that people achieve
different states of enlightenment.
What determines what state of enlightenment
a person receives? Does it have to do with karmic factors or does it have to do
with your belief systems?
It has a lot to do with your
belief systems, closely followed by your karma. Very often it has to do with your belief systems, the kind of
conditioning you have gone through.
But you can change it if you want to at some point in time, if you feel
like it. So that’s why I am saying you can design your God, and you can design
your enlightenment.
Bhagavan, I remember when I was young I was
very fascinated by the life and teachings of Jesus, and always wondered what it
would be like to be born in his times, to be one of his disciples, when he sent
them out to go heal the sick and relieve suffering. What is fascinating to me now is that the same kinds of miracles,
the same kinds of healings are beginning to happening now with the Deeksha /
Oneness Blessing and with other circumstances. Would you like to say something
about that?
Yes, this is the
continuation of that work that Christ left behind. This should have happened in fact 2000 years ago, this
transformation of man, but for some reason it got aborted. But now the same thing has come back. So in the Deeksha / Oneness Blessing people
are getting in touch with Christ consciousness, especially in the west. They are discovering the same consciousness
which Christ was trying to give them.
It is no different from that. In
fact I would say that would be true Christianity, as Christ intended it to be.
Yes, Christ said “I and the Father are
One”.
Yes.
So from that consciousness, miracles are possible.
So as people experience the same consciousness today the same miracles are
being evident.
Yes, exactly.
You mention that here are certain miracles
taking place in Orissa.
Yes there is a place in
Orissa, called Gutagaon, where thousands of people come, and get healed. There
is another place called Bhimavaram where surgeries are done on them as they
come and lie down in front of the srimurti.
Like miracle surgeries. Like psychic
surgeries?
Miracle surgeries, yes. More and more this will be happening around
the country and around the world. These
are not miracles that I go and do, they are spontaneous miracles occurring
around the planet. I personally do not do any miracles like that. I am not a
miracle worker in that sense.
But you train people to become miracle
workers.
Yes, around them these
miracles happen.
So it’s really cosmic consciousness that
allows the miracles to take place. So
the fact that is happening more and more, and that enlightenment is happening
more and more, you have spoken about this in relationship to what you have
called the ‘morphogenetic fields’.
Could you describe that phenomenon?
Yes, for example this
phenomenon is about 12 years old, and we have found that at certain intervals
it becomes more powerful. So what we have
discovered is that the more people get that state it becomes easier for other
people get that state, whether it is in connection with healings or the
enlightened state or other states of consciousness. We find that people who
come later are getting it more easily and much faster. So obviously there is a field which is
absorbing all this transformation and able to transfer it to others much
faster. That’s how the morphogenetic
fields are really helping. We can see
it in action.
There is a psychologist in America, David
Hawkins. And he has devised a scale of consciousness from 0 to 1000. At the bottom end of the scale
are emotions like guilt, shame, fear, whereas on the upper end you have love
and joy and enlightenment. What he says
is that one person who is holding the state of joy or love or enlightenment can
actually counterbalance thousands or even millions of people who are holding
the states of guilt, shame and fear that so many people are stuck in. So what
he says is that this is also a morphogenetic field and what is taking place is
that because it doesn’t take a large number of people, as long as they are high
on the consciousness scale, they can actually create a huge wave of
enlightenment.
Yes that’s very true. That
is the purpose of the sages and saints; they have to counterbalance the other
negative energies. That is why we
believe that once we have 64,000 people, that will be enough for transforming
the whole of mankind.
Why 64,000?
Somehow that seems to be the
necessary number for making this happen very spontaneously… These are factors
which have been revealed to us. We don’t fully understand the dynamics, but
these were revealed to us. We go on the basis of revelation. It is not just
something that comes to one person, but if it is something that happens to many
people over a long period of time, that is what we accept as revelation. That
becomes our road map.
How long will it take to get 64,000 people
enlightened?
It could take anywhere from
one year to 6 years. It can happen very fast also. It depends on how quickly
people respond. It could happen in a few months time also. So we can’t really specify the time
here. It can happen very fast, or it
can take a little more time.
So now you are training people to give
Deeksha / Oneness Blessing themselves, and this will be a part of this. They
will move out across the earth and they will begin to give Deeksha / Oneness
Blessing and make people enlightened, and then eventually, like you said, it
will happen through a touch, a glance, a prayer…
It could happen very very
fast. Let’s say people read your book
that could be some kind of Deeksha / Oneness Blessing. Or they can flock to your talks or programs
where you are giving Deeksha / Oneness Blessing, and it could happen very very
fast. It can happen very fast really.
People must be very serious. That’s all that is required.
I know some musicians who have gone through
the Deeksha / Oneness Blessing training, and so as they perform the music, then
that itself could be a Deeksha / Oneness Blessing.
Yes. And one thing likely to
happen, as people read your book, they could also get some kind of Deeksha /
Oneness Blessing. That’s also very much
possible.
I notice that when I was writing the book
it was flowing through in such an amazing fashion, the entire book was written
in 10 days. In fact, I felt your presence coming through so strongly. So I am
sure it is a Deeksha / Oneness Blessing.
Yes, it is more like our
architect who designed our Oneness Temple. It just flowed through him, and in
no time at all it was ready. It was just lying before him.
You said about the Oneness Temple, that
when people go in to worship, people can come in from any religious faith, but
what they will see is a reflection of their own God.
Yes, it is a very strange
temple, and there will be a strange throne there, an empty throne. And when people from any faith will come and
worship they will see their God or a sign of their God’s presence on the
throne. It will only be visible to them. They can pray in any fashion they
want. And they will see their God on the throne. That’s what is so unique about
it.
So it is an inner revelation. It also reminds me of the phenomenon that is
growing known as the ‘phala Deeksha / Oneness Blessing’. What actually happens?
In phala Deeksha / Oneness
Blessing the God whom they worship appears before them. They could have a
dialogue with that God and ask them for whatever they want or any
clarifications they need about their life.
It is a great dialogue between man and God. And God may grant them their
wish, and in case he is not granting it he will give them a reason why he is
not granting it. So it is a one to one relationship between man and God. So he
gets what he wants.
So it is no longer dependent on faith. It
is a real life experience.
It is a real life
experience. It does not depend on your
faith.
It shows the change in the relationship
between man and God.
Yes. There is a change. Something very epochal is happening here.
There is a definite change. God is coming very close to man. And man too.
It is a lost relationship. They were supposed to be very close in the
last Golden Age. They are supposed to have walked and talked together, you
know. Then there was a strange alienation between man and God. And it generated
in subsequent yugas. So now that the
Golden Age is back, man and God have to come together. They become friends
again. That’s it.
I see the veils are beginning to thin
between the dimensions and lokas. One
question that it brings up for me is the idea of death, because so many people
are afraid to die, especially when they are conditioned by beliefs about hell,
if they have done something bad, or even believe that they have done something
bad, that they will go to hell. What actually happens to people as they make
that passage?
What happens is that as
people die and they are very scared of hell or of being judged by God, then
very often they do not continue their journey. They get stuck in the earth
sphere as earthbound spirits. That is an unfortunate thing that is happening.
If people of different faiths do the necessary rituals and ceremonies then it
is definitely possible to help them.
But more important would be to make them talk to God and realize that
God is very friendly and is not going to stand in judgment over them. But this
is going to require a shift in man’s thinking.
I think that’s the best way to liberate man. He has to get friendly with his God, otherwise there is needless
trouble.
So the actual passage of death is very
beautiful and peaceful?
It’s very very
beautiful. The process of dying is a
very beautiful process. But for most
people, it takes about three days to realize they are dead. Somehow it takes
that much time. That’s why people have
to go through ceremonies to help them realize they are dead and then to prepare
them for their journey to meet God. So if that can take place it is very
easy. But if on the other hand fear is
put into the person they will hang around. Then they will have to be helped.
So there are spirit helpers who can assist
them to go to the appropriate lokas?
Yes, that’s why when people
come to us we work with them to help their ancestors, their parents and
grandparents to be cleared. And once these people move away from the earth
sphere the person can actually feel the liberation, they will feel a lightness.
It’s not something to be believed in, but it can be experienced.
Bhagavan, what about people who have died?
When global enlightenment happens, will
they also be…
They will be spontaneously
enlightened. It’s not only for the
living but also for the dead.
So then they can choose to reincarnate
again on this earth or somewhere else?
It’s up to them whether they
want reincarnate on the earth sphere, or some other sphere, or some other
planet. It’s all up to them. Such is the freedom given to man.
Bhagavan, there are many people who have
been longing their whole life for love, who feel like this has eluded them, who
are so afraid to love, who are so afraid to receive love, what would you say to
people like that?
Yes, I think they will soon
be soaked and bathed in love. I think
there will soon be spontaneous occurrences of this. Before enlightenment occurs
people will have discovered love, I think. And that will soon be followed by
enlightenment itself. And that will be
followed by oneness with God. I think
that will be the order.
So enlightenment, God-realization, love…
Enlightenment,
God-realization, love all these things are going to happen, people won’t have
to try and get there, these will just spontaneously happen.
I think that’s the biggest gift that you
are offering, that there is no striving necessary, in fact the striving itself
can be a block, an obstacle to receiving it,
because then the mind feels like it can do something.
Like it can do something,
yes. The poor mind cannot do anything,
it is conflict ridden, it is in opposition with itself, it is repetitive in
nature, it is too ancient. So really it
can’t do much. It has to realize it is
helpless and give up. That’s when grace can take over.
You speak about the mind as the ancient
mind. What do you imply by that?
By that I imply that
basically its structure has not changed. That fear is at the core of the human
mind. Earlier it could have been the
fear of a tiger or lion; today it is the fear of the stock market or the fear
of losing your job. Then you were very anxious abut the weather, now you are
anxious about your job or other things. The same craving is there, the same
desires are there. The objects of
desire have changed but the desire to be something else is still there. You see, fundamentally man has not changed,
that’s why I call the mind very ancient. Only the objects have changed, the
objects of craving, the objects of fear, the objects of anxiety, they have changed. But fundamentally it is the
same old mind, living continuously in fear, living continuously in becoming,
moving from where you are to where you want to be. It does not stay put. It
is not where it should be. It mainly
lives in fear. And basically there is
no change in man. So I do not see any
difference between Homo sapiens and Neanderthal man. We have had limited experience of people who have lived earlier,
and we see that fundamentally they are the same.
So when we are enlightened we can leave
this mind behind.
You can leave this mind
behind, yes. You can become completely free of the mind. I am talking of a
transformation where you become free of the mind. I am not focusing so much on a transformation within the mind.
That the psychologists and the philosophers can do. And they are doing a fairly
good job. So I don’t have to waste time on that. But I am talking of becoming
free of the mind itself.
Bhagavan, do you have any plans to travel around the world?
Certainly not in the near
future. Maybe sometime, it’s very possible.
I don’t really need to travel. I can do my work from wherever I am.
Do you feel that at some point your work
will be over?
Most certainly, yes. The
moment the world is enlightened, my work is over. The moment humanity becomes one humanity, one complete humanity,
and all the divisions have ceased, my work is over. I am here to remove all
divisions in whatever form they might exist.
So Bhagavan would you like to say any final
words to readers?
I would like to tell them
that though humanity faces a lot of obstacles, and danger seems to be lurking
around the corner, I would like to tell them that redemption is around the
corner, that we are going to make it!
Bhagavan, I am so grateful to be in your presence, and to know that this
redemption is around the corner. I am sure many many people around the world
echo my sentiments, just to know that there is hope and that there is a plan,
that we are entering into a Golden Age, and that the Deeksha / Oneness Blessing
is possible now, that it can actually transform people’s lives so completely
and so beautifully in a way that was never possible before. So please accept my
heartfelt gratitude. Namaste.